The zoo is cool.

The End

OH NO HE DIDNT

pretty darn good prediction considering the game came down to a fg…

you know whats funny, the lions were about two inches away(insert joke about Mark here) from people saying “same old Lions” this morning..

but because longwells fg clanked off the uprights, all is good in Lions land…

nevermind the fact that they

a)cant run the ball

b)turn the ball over at will

c)were about one kitna sack away from having JT O’Sullivan as the starting qb for the rest of the year

so lets review, no running game, turnovers galore and no backup qb…

yep that definitely sounds like a playoff team to me

OH NO HE DIDNT

Andy,

The lions are an average team. . . not great . . but average. . . they have beat two teams that they should have beaten (something they have never done during the Millen era). The vikings have the best run defense in the league. . . . and a defense that creates turnovers. While Kitna was in there, the lions had ONE turnover. . They beat Oakland on the road (Oakland almost beat Denver in Denver) and the beat a Minn team that killed Atlanta last week. Are the lions a sure thing playoff team NO. . . but compared to what we have seen the last 6 years, this is the best during the Millen era.

Prediction for next week:
Phily 27
Lions 23

Let’s review what Mark is saying and give him a little credit. The Lions have two wins already in the first two weeks of the season. That’s only happened once in the last 6 years, name the year?

Extended question of the day:
In what week did the Lions secure their second win in the last 6 years?

2001-Week 17 (2 Wins all season)
2002-Week 6 (3 total wins)
2003-Week 8 (5 wins)
2004-Week 2 (6 wins)
2005-Week 4 (5 wins)
2006-Week 8 (3 wins)

Isaac’s argument is valid, the Lions still suck and have proven they can lose a lot of games despite starting with 2 wins.

Winning is contagious. Football is a funny sport and momentum is worth a lot more than people think. Average teams can have a great season if they believe they can win. Who knows what will happen if they go into Philly next week and completely rob the Eagles.

As Mark said, there might not be room on the wagon for you if it happens.

(For the record, it won’t happen. They’re going to lose the next 3)

With how bad the Eagles have played in the first two weeks, Im sure all Lions fans think they have a legitimate shot of winning next week…

however, much like the Spartans this week, can you really see the Eagles starting the season 0-3 and at home?

I sure as hell dont

I wont be a diehard fan again until some real changes are made…firing Matt Millen is a must…until then, Im an extremely casual fan…I wont plan my Sundays around them and sure as hell wont scream and throw things anymore

Im not sure I agree with most people’s definition of “fairweather fan”….

Im sure the consensus is: loving, cheering for your team only when they are good makes you fairweather….

thats not really what im doing…

I will cheer them again, even if they are bad, as long as they get rid of matt millen

nope…casual fan

again,

good or bad, Im not going to be a diehard until Millen is gone

why is that hard to understand?

They wont go ANYWHERE or do ANYTHING while he is their GM…

I just don’t understand the logic behind hating Millen so much that you can’t cheer for your team anymore.

Jimmy Johnson could be hired as the Bills HC tomorrow and as long as they win and aren’t the thugs the 90’s Cowboys were, I’d be all about it.

Thank you, Mark.

Correct me if I’m wrong, Isaac, but you’re not convicned that the Lions will go anywhere with Millen at the helm. Even if they start 6-0, the wheels will eventually come off. Even if they go to the playoffs this year, you believe they will soon enough be a miserable team with Millen in charge.

Fair enough. I don’t think Isaac is rooting against them, he just isn’t convinced that they are worth a darn right now, notwithstanding their record. Let’s face it, they weren’t two impressive wins; true, they were wins, but they weren’t the type of performances that either instill you with confidence or make you think anything has changed.

Take the wins as the come, hope that thery win, but until they show us something, don’t spend another dime on the team. As a fan in this position, what else can you do?

My perspective:

The Bills will not win the AFC East, the AFC or a Super Bowl anytime soon. The Patriots and Colts are too good right now. But, I still root like heck to climb the mountain. Why? Because I want them to do well. JP Losman is my Matt Millen. The team probably won’t go anywhere with him at QB, just like the Lions probably will not win a SB with MM as GM. However, both statements are far from guarantees.

The Bills have the longest playoff drought of any AFC team. But you won’t catch me not caring whether they win or lose until they’re mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. In which case, I will root against them because in the long run, it’s better that they get the higher draft picks (I don’t think you can argue much with that statement).

The Lions are smack-dab in the middle of a very weak NFC North and a weak NFC in general. The majority of the “powers” of the NFC, ie Chicago, New Orleans, Philadelphia have looked downright bad in the first two weeks. Of the “top teams” in the NFC, only Dallas has looked as good as advertised. Therefore, why rule the Lions out now? Yes, history is stacked against them, but history was stacked against the Tigers before last year too.

Yes you can’t stand Matt Millen, but you also can’t stand Pudge Rodriguez…yet you root for the Tigers.

This comment has turned into a “why I’m right and you’re wrong”, but that wasn’t my initial intention. My intention was to re-build the fire that made you break Pat’s couch and hurt five roommates’ ears.

These games still mean something. Even if the Lions lose their next three games, an NFC Wild Card spot can be had with an 8-8 record. Considering how weak the NFC North is, eight wins is not out of the question.

I’m not saying the Lions will make the playoffs or go 8-8 (as I predicted them to go 6-10). But, if Jon Kitna can stay upright like he did last year and their front four can maintain their play, why can’t they prove me wrong by winning two more games?

I’m not a Lions fan for selfish reasons. If my team can’t be good (the Bills), neither can your team.

But, as long as there is hope for this year and I don’t see how you an argue that there isn’t at least SOME hope, what’s wrong for rooting for them? All things considered, the Bills’ uphill climb is far steeper than the Lions, Matt Millen or no Matt Millen.

Fine, I’ll say it. I’m a bigger Bills fan than you are Lions fan. There.

Show some fire. The good times will seem so much better, if you do continue to “ride the lows” to get to the “highs”. The 15 years of Tigers futility made last year’s World Series that much more exciting.

Ok, I’m done.

tim,

i obviously cant guarantee that Millen wont take them to a SuperBowl…

but in my mind, I have no faith that he can

does that make sense?

My fire for the Lions is non-existent…

as for the Tigers comparison: If Randy Smith had stuck around, then I think a lot of Tigers fans would feel the same way…he was totally inept at his job…

Dave Dombrowski, at the very least has a track record of success as a GM….so you can always point to that and say, “that gives me faith”

very much the same for you, the Bills have made 4 superbowls in your lifetime and have been a fairly successful franchise….that gives you more hope and faith, doesnt it?

I don’t think that a GM has as much influence on a team’s performace as you do. . . a coach has a lot more impact than a GM in my humble opinion. Everyone praises Dave Dombrowski but everyone forget that he hired Trammell as a manager. I am not saying that it does not matter who the GM is. . . it’s just that I don’t think the impact is as big as you make it. . . now hiring Marty and Mooch were his mistakes and those were bad decision. . but Dombrowski hired Trammell. . . The Mooch hiring was hailed as the second coming of Jesus when it happened. . . Yes. . . some of first round picks have been busts, but we all forget Andre Ware, Reggie Rogers, Chuck Long, in my opinion, those picks were worst than all of Millen’s picks. His drafts have not all been busts. . . . . Roy Williams, Ernie Sims, Calvin Johnson, Kevin Jones, Shaun Rogers, Shaun Cody, Cory Redding, Boss Bailey, Jeff Backus, and Bullocks are all legit NFL players. . . can he improve. . . yes. . . but every GM makes mistakes at some point. . .

you took the words out of my mouth Pat

mark, I cant believe you tried to defend matt millen…

I am not a millen apologist. . . I just don’t agree with the point that the GM is the most important guy in a football team. . . is millen the best GM, NO. . . but I think at this point he is adequate

mark, did you call millen adequate?

no, adequate is .500 or slightly below…

he is I believe 26-72…

can you imagine if you were that bad at your job? whats the equivalent?

taking a dump on your bosses desk?

as far as Ford, Ive given up on them selling the team…I see no scenario where that will happen so therefore, Ive given up on that idea…

but Millen, he is expendable as past GMs have…

Mark’s last post was pretty on the money.

I never have said and never will say that, up until this year going forward (maybe), Matt Millen has done a good job building a winning football team.

However, it was not his fault that he was handed a position where he was far unqualified for at the time he was hired. It was also not his fault that the Lions had absolute bupkis for talent when he was hired. Yes, he has certainly had a hand in the Lions dismal record since his hiring, but there are many other factors that go into their abysmal existence.

As Mark said, once the Lions ownership likes a member of their administration, they become fixated on them. What has Tom Lewand done to deserve to a front office position involving player personnel going on 12 years? Why the shoot does Bill Ford, Jr. still have any hand in the football decisions? The only answer to both of those questions is because Bill Ford, Sr. is the Lions owner.

For sure the Marty Thingamajig hiring turned out poorly. He falls into the classic case of a guy who makes a much better coordinator than a head coach. But, even so, he was a stepping stone for Millen’s guy anyway – Steve Mariucci. Now, raise your hand if you TOTALLY disagreed with the Mariucci hiring. Be honest. Yes, you could say he was overrated, but at the time, there was no more qualified, experience head coaching candidate out there. We all know how that tenure failed, but hindsight is 20/20. I don’t know if I would believe anyone on this board if they say they thought it was a terrible hiring when it happened. So, how much can you really fault Millen for that? Yes, he did not provide Mooch with the necessary players to go out and win, but at the same time, he was still in over his head as far as his responsibilities for building a winning football team…again, not really his fault. Sidenote concerning the Mornhinweg/Mooch era: Joey Harrington was not Millen’s choice for that draft pick. Quentin Jammer was. Quentin Jammer starts for a team who lost in the AFC Championship last year. Joey’s lack of development was also a major hurdle/barrier from the Lions having recent success…much like JP Losman in Buffalo right now.

Now, we come to the Rod Verysmelly era. Last year was a bad one. Team dissention left and right. Marinelli’s main focus last year was to fill his team with guys that shared his attitude. He weeded out losers like Dre Bly. He made Jon Kitna, who is one tough/stupid son of a gun, his QB. He knew the Lions weren’t going to go 10-6 last year; but, his goal was simple: prove you belong and you will belong.

Now, we fast forward to this year. Millen has a head coach who, whether you like him or not, you have to like his attitude. He has started to put people in the right places (to show that after all this time, he might actually be catching on how to build a team). And, the NFC couldn’t be weaker.

The job of winning is on EVERYONE that has a hand in each individual football game. The GM, the Player Personnel Director, the head coach, the assistant coaches, the quarterback, the holder on the field goals, the team managers, trainers, etc. It’s Millen’s job to put the right people in the right places to succeed.

Judging by what I said earlier about Tom Lewand and Bill Jr. still having hands in the organization, something tells me that they would have been involved no matter who was the Lions GM – Bill Walsh, Bill Polian, you name it. Granted, Polian and Walsh are far far more accomplished than Millen, but again, it wasn’t Millen’s fault that he was hired. It isn’t Millen’s fault that Bill Sr. grossly overpaid him on his contract extension.

Maybe, just maybe, Millen has started the Lions on the track to succeeding. Maybe he hasn’t, but they’re 2-0 and face an 0-2 Philly team that has looked like Michigan in its first two games. 3-0 isn’t too farfetched. Some “experts” are actually picking it.

Now, if you want to say this post was an apology for Millen’s disgusting first six years, you’re wrong. He should have been fired after four years, but he wasn’t. On the other hand, maybe he has started to learn how to run a decent football team. Maybe he hasn’t, but maybe he has.

My question to you: why is Matt Millen your enemy? The Lions were awful far before Matt Millen. I think Mark brought this up earlier. For Lions fans, the enemy shouldn’t be Matt Millen; it should be the guy who has let this losing go on for decades; the guy who has let guys like Lewand and Bill Jr. run the front office for over a decade over misery; the same guy that didn’t fire Millen after four years and gave him a ridiculous extension despite his horrid record; shoot, the guy that lets Millen live in Pennsylvania. Don’t say you wouldn’t work from home on a somewhat regular basis if your boss let you. Your enemy shouldn’t be Matt Millen, it should be Bill Ford, Sr.

With ALL of that said, the Lions are 2-0, why not enjoy the ride while it lasts?

By the way, for not giving two Rips (Haaaaaaamilton’s) about the Lions, I have written way too much about them in the last three days.

There are countless football guys that would make bad GMs if they were given that much responsibility tomorrow. Matt Millen is a football guy yes, but so is Tom Lewand (according to the Lions). He oversees their player development and football administration. Yes, he works on the business side of things, but he oversees football things too.

My main argument from before: Yes, it’s Millen’s job to put the right people in the right spots…BUT, it’s Bill Sr.’s job to put the right man in the right spot who is responsible for putting the right people in the right spots, ie you can blame Millen, yes, but your ultimate blame should be on the owner. He’s the head guy. Yes, it’s his team and he can do what he wants, but Millen, Lewand and Bill Jr. can also run their posts like they want…or they would be long gone.

As far as the Lions being a good business. 99% of NFL teams are good business. Most talented businessmen who also happen to be knowledgable footballmen could run an NFL team. The NFL is a sport unlike any other. Fans only get eight chances to come watch their team play. Of course tickets will sell. However, on the same token, why was that first game not televised? Not enough tickets were sold.

Sure the Lions may be a crappy organization and you won’t get that argument from me, but it starts from the very top. Bill Sr. knows Millen’s record, he knows how many playoff games Tom Lewand and Bill Jr. have had a hand in. Lewand and Bill Jr. should have had their hands removed from the football aspect a long time ago. Millen should have been let go years ago. But, it isn’t any of their faults that they still hold the jobs they do today.

And my other main point was that although Millen was a “football guy” coming in, it takes more than that to be able to build a team.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I am pretty sure he had ZERO front office experience. But…maybe, just maybe, after six years of futility, he has learned from his mistakes.

One thing in this whole discussion that I am having a hard time grasping is how I have similar views with a guy who sat on my head.