Thanks to reader Tom for sending this over to me. I’ve always thought both the Twins and White Sox did this. Especially to pitchers like Verlander who they have no chance against.
But with Joe Mauer doing it…Well, that’s gotta sting to all the Twins fans that built him up to be the greatest player in their franchises history.
And its not like its subtle. Its about as obvious as it comes, although, the person making the video does a fantastic job of pointing out every single movement Mauer makes (some of which, are incorrect)
This obviously doesn’t paint Jason Kubel in a good light either. The best he could muster knowing every pitch was a fly out to center field.
I guess when people say that when you enter the Twins farm system, you have to learn how to play “Twins baseball”.
Well folks, I think we now know what they’re talking about
Disgusting vintage foods 
Annoying Things Women Do 
Are you a douchebag? 
What women are afraid of 
Sexy Female Athletes 
October 1, 2009
#1
Nope, you're wrong.
(1) Stealing signs is part of the game. It has been since the creation and will be until the end. There is nothing immoral or wrong about it. Every team (high school through the Major Leagues) tries to do it, but the success rate is very low.
(2) There is no reason for anyone to think less of Mauer. Shoot, if he's the one responsible for recognizing the signs, they should think more of him.
(3) As far as Kubel, it was actually a pretty good at bat. He either didn't notice Mauer on the first pitch or got giddy when he saw the hanger and missed it. It was smart of him to call time when he saw that offspeed stuff was coming. After that, he battled pretty well against one of the best pitchers in baseball. The Tigers would be a lot more formidable with Kubel in their lineup.
(4) I'm pretty sure the guy who made the video was wrong when he said the Tigers figured out that Mauer was relaying the pitches. Had they realized it, Laird would have made a trip to the mound to change the indicator.
(5) I don't think the relaying was obvious at all. Had this video not been made, would you have noticed?
October 1, 2009
#2
100% agreed, nothing wrong with what Mauer was doing its part of the game. If he can pick up the opponents signs, then hes a better player than most, and he deserves more respect than he already gets. Picking up signs and relaying them are all part of the game whether its phsycially or verbally, and I agree, I highly doubt Detroit knew what was going on, or they would have changed the sign sequence.
October 1, 2009
#3
there's a reason why catchers put down multiple signs when a runner gets to second because that's part of the job as a base runner once you get to second base. It's just like when coaches and players watch a third base coach giving signs to a runner or batter and seeing something, so the defense then calls a pitch out or throw over to first.
does the author of this article watch a lot of baseball?
October 1, 2009
#4
I watch a lot of baseball, but I would never consider myself a "baseball guy" per se…
Sure, baseball purists will say its part of the game but as a non-baseball guy I find it hilarious that Bill Belichick was absolutely chastised for essentially doing the same thing.
Stealing signals…
October 1, 2009
#5
here's a good article on stealing signs. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32768612/ns/sports-baseball/?ns=sports-baseball
and in football you try to do the same thing during the game, you just can't have someone video taping the other teams coaches like NE did last year.
This is totally different than the A-rod or Miguel Tejada stories of tipping pitches to friends on the opposite team.
October 1, 2009
#6
one more thing about the Belichick situation is that the NFL said "do not steal sings by video taping the opposing sidelines"
baseball doesn't have a rule against what Mauer is doing.
October 1, 2009
#7
I'm not arguing the legality of what Mauer did in comparison to Belichick.
I'm arguing the ethical nature of the two situations.
October 1, 2009
#8
Yeah, that Joe Mauer, he's evil. Trying to win baseball games.
There's no ethical violation in taking advantage of the opposing team's stupidity. He's not using any equipment other than his eyes, he's not even doing anything in secret. He just noticed that they neglected to switch up their pitch-calling with a runner on second. It's called competition. He'd be remiss if he didn't do it.
Also, it's called "stealing signs", not "tipping pitches".
October 1, 2009
#9
If Belichick hadn't been using a camera hidden inside a football, it wouldn't have been against the rules of the NFL or unethical.
If you can pick up your opponent's signs with your own eyes, in real time, in any sport, it's not cheating, it's smart.
If you're using a camera, especially one covertly hidden in a football, it's not only cheating, it's slimy.
October 1, 2009
#10
a football?
I never heard that Dylan…where'd you read it?
October 1, 2009
#11
I think the Belicheat analogy is a good one. I'm not enough of a "baseball guy" either to really weigh in on it being a part of the game, but I do think the camera versus naked eye distinction is weak. Who knows that Mauer/anyone didn't study tape to learn the signs (again, not being a "baseball guy," I don't know if that's likely or even possible). To suggest he learned them on the fly, and that's more noble than Belicheat using a camera does carry a lot of water with me. Also, all the justifications for Mauer (good for him for being so heads up; the Tiger's should have been smarter; etc.) all apply to the Belicheat situation, right? If your plays are being stolen, change your signals, change your signal caller, stop using signals, run the plays in or call them from the line.
I'm not saying Mauer was right or wrong; but maybe Belicheat wasn't as wrong as we all thought he was (myself included). Biggest difference: Belicheat is a Beli-asshole.
October 1, 2009
#12
I don't think the Belijerk comparison is that relevant. The problem was him isn't that he stole signals, it's how he stole them.
None of us know how the Twins stole the signals. If they did use video, they deserve to be severely punished. But, that's merely conjecture. Until it's shown they used video, I can't fault them.
With intra-division rivals facing each other 19 times, it's quite possible that the Twins had stolen the Tigers' indicator a while ago and were waiting until the right time to use it.
October 1, 2009
#13
in baseball most of the basic pitch signs are the same, for instance one finger fastball, 2 curve, 3 changeup, ect… Sometimes they don't use an indicator, they'll just go second sign and do a sequence of 4 signs.
That will change throughout the game as well.
Someone just watching the game can figure it out if you pay attention to each pitch.
The only way this would relate to belichick is if there was a rule saying a runner can't communicate with the batter.
October 1, 2009
#14
There's no dispute that: (1) the NFL has a specific rule prohibiting what Belicheat did; (2) Belicheat broke that rule; (3) MLB does not appear to have a rule against what Mauer did; and (4) Mauer did not break any rule. I guess my question (and I think WOI's question) is: why is it ok in baseball and not in football?
That's not to say MLB should prohibit stealing signs, or that the NFL should not prohibit stealing signs with a camera. It's just weird — it seems like a relatively minor distinction between the two examples (other than the obivious and MAJOR distinction that the NFL has a specific rule, and MLB doesn't).
October 1, 2009
#15
Does the NFL have a rule saying it isn't "ok" to steal signals (without using electronics)?
October 1, 2009
#16
I love how people defend baseball by saying it is part of the game. All the players thought using steriods was part of the game, because everyone did it.
October 1, 2009
#17
Get a clue, Derek.
October 1, 2009
#18
Why do football coaches cover their mouths with clipboards?
Why do baseball players cover their mouths with gloves?
They don't want the other team to know what is being said. People try to steal information in both sports. It's not immoral, unless a specific rule is broken, like using a camera.
October 2, 2009
#19
The ethical question here: Is Isaac dumber than ten dumb dogs, or dumber than ten brown masses left by ten dumb dogs?
October 2, 2009
#20
I thought Belicheat was a total crook for doing what he did and it made me dislike him even more than I already did. BUT, comparing it to baseball, I'm starti ng to think it wasn't that big of a deal. I still don't see there being much difference between watching the opposing teams signals live and using/communicating them mid-game, and recording another teams signals pre-game and using/communicating them mid-game (to me, the bigger violation, and really the point of the NFL rule, is encroaching upon the other teams practice time – be it in a common area or elsewhere).
If NFL coaches were as close to one another as a runner on second is to the catcher, the NFL rule might be a lot different – but they aren't, so whatever.
October 2, 2009
#21
This is one of the dumbest things I have read. Like most people have said, stealing signs at second is part of the game and you are taught to do this from little league. It's on the catcher to at least attempt to change the signs a little bit.
Also, how does this paint kubel in a bad light? Even if you know what pitch is coming, I guarantee most people wouldn't be able to hit a 98 mph fastball.
Author clearly knows nothing about baseball and is just spewing out things he has heard other people say.
October 3, 2009
#22
last anonymous: don't be an asshole. One of the biggest problems with baseball are the so called experts who explain things away by saying things are/are not "part of the game/culture" and if you can't get behind that then you know nothing and aren't allowed to talk about it.